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09:56 PM EST, Sunday Nov 01, 2009
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Should I care about the country where the server is located? |
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Hey there.
I've been creating a variety of blogs over several niches. Most of them are NOT successful in terms of generating traffic and sales.
However, a couple of them are doing well and I want to expand on those niches doing well, and drop the rest.
Trouble is, the one's doing well are in the scat niche. (Yeah it's disgusting, but I just want to make some extra money).
I'm not sure about the legality of the whole thing. The site is on an American server, and I am a Canadian resident.
From what I've been reading, there does not seem to be a clear cut answer on whether or not they are any obscenity issues in either the U.S. or Canada. But to be on the
safe side, I'm thinking of moving the blog in that scat niche to another server in a country where it is acceptable. I'm guessing maybe the Netherlands or Brazil?
Is this something I should be concerned about? Does anyone know any decent hosting companies in those countries?
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09:51 AM EST, Monday Nov 02, 2009
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Well, I can tell you this... if you're an American, moving your content to a server in another country will NOT help you avoid obscenity charges. I don't know much about Canadian law, other than that obscenity laws there focus on degradation of women, but could include other topics as well. You might want to research what happened to Steve Sweet in Canada re: obscenity.
The reason why those blogs are probably successful is because almost nobody wants to tackle that topic... which should give you pause for thought. It's possible to find success with other topics, but when there's more competition you have to work harder at it.
And of course when there's a legal question, your best bet is always to contact an attorney.
_________________
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. -Mark Twain
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03:16 PM EST, Monday Nov 02, 2009
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I'll keep this short and sweet. If you are doing business in the U.S., whether distributing via Internet, mail, retail store or wagon cart, you are subject to U.S. criminal laws. As to Internet distribution, obscenity laws are criminal sanctions and will be enforced against you and your company regardless of the location of your server. This principle was just re-affirmed last week in the United States v. Kilbride decision, No. 07-10528 (9th Cir. Oct. 28, 2009).
Unfortunately, as has been stated quite often on this board, whether certain material, including "scat," will be found obscene is not clear from a legal standpoint. For more specific guidance as to your material, consult a qualified attorney who is either familiar with American obscenity laws or is willing to do the necessary research to become familiar.
Lastly, with regard to the national obscenity standard for Internet material created in the Kilbride case, no one knows if the Ninth Circuit's decision will be followed by other Circuits, upheld by an en banc panel of the Ninth Circuit or affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court. Moreover, given the recent change of composition on the Supreme Court, I doubt that the Miller test will face substantial revision for Internet material despite the obvious potential chilling effects on speech.
_________________
Evan S. Rothfarb
Rothfarb Law, PLLC
Visit us at http://www.rothfarblaw.com
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08:45 PM EST, Tuesday Nov 03, 2009
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Your server is personal property -- it is subject to an action ''in rem.'' In other words, it could be shut down and/or its contents seized in connection with some legal action.
Scat (or human excrement {e.g., poop, shit, etc.},) when used in some way in a sexual context, in most nations, is a forbidden (*obscene*) subject for images.
As a Canadian citizen, your extradition to a foreign nation, is limited to the act also being a violation of parallel Canadian law and that the penalty of the foreign law is comparable to Canadian law or otherwise established by some extradition treaty between the nations.
If you are a US citizen, placing your server in another nation does not release you personally of the compliance with the laws of the nation that you are a citizen or resident of.
The nation of your citizenship or residency establishes that nation's legal jurisdiction upon you.
As for the United States v. Kilbride decision, No. 07-10528 (9th Cir. Oct. 28, 2009) I would expect the 9th Circuit Appeals decision to be appealed by the government in some form. Acknowledging the existence of an ''internet community'' renders Miller v. California moot for any claim revolving around internet distribution in violation of local standards of obscenity.
_________________
Live Sex Cams XloveCam.com Adult Affiliate Program - AWCM - 30% Lifetime Revenue Share +more ...
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04:55 AM EST, Wednesday Nov 11, 2009
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Just on the off chance that you are one of the many
people I've spoken to who want REALLY badly to believe
getting hosting in some other country will give you any
protection:
THE SERVER WOULDN'T GO TO PRISON.
YOU WOULD BE SENT TO PRISON, SO WHAT
MATTERS IS WHERE YOU ARE.
That's just in case being told by two lawyers and one left
wing extremist wasn't enough for you. (Just kidding, Connor).
That said, I wouldn't try to host a scat site in the Middle
East, or in Utah. Where you host could slightly
increase your risk if you host where the local community
is much more prude than where you live, because of the
"community standards" obscenity test. Consider if you
lived in perverted San Francisco and you hosted in
prudish Utah. The DA in Utah might be somewhat more likely to come after you than they would be if your site
was just available in Utah. A Utah DA could put you
on trial for obscenity either way since you offer to sell
shit to Utah residents.
I suggest you really think about this. Is this going to
make you enough money to be worth going to prison?
To me, it wouldn't even be worth feeling like worthless
scum because I sell disgusting garbage for a living.
I'd MUCH rather put my efforts into creating something
I could be proud of in some way. A few dollars SURE
isn't worth going to prison, and on top of that my family
having to walk around knowing everyone in town
saw the news coverage of the bust.
[/i]
_________________
Strongbox, the next generation site security:
BetterCGI.com
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06:11 PM EST, Tuesday Jan 19, 2010
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| raymor wrote: |
THE SERVER WOULDN'T GO TO PRISON.
|
Assume the worst, and the gendarmes knock on your door at 3am. They will take away all your equipment; it is doubtful you will ever get it back.
Yes raymor, servers do go to prison. Or at least hang out on death row. A few come back, but severely lobotomized.
But if your host is scat-friendly, and your server is far, far away, then the gendarmes will need to involve Interpol to get your material.
All else being equal, the guy responsible for your hypothetical nightmare is looking to make a political score with local constituents. The more paperwork you put in his way, the more political bodies and hurdles he has to cross to nail you... the less likely he'll take it on.
| Quote: | To me, it wouldn't even be worth feeling like worthless scum because I sell disgusting garbage for a living.
I'd MUCH rather put my efforts into creating something
|
This is odd. Here is a vendor selling products at an adult webmaster site, telling us what scum we are. Charming.
This vendor had no issues taking money from my scat site. We were extremely unhappy with the product and service. The vendor had his own agenda and wasn't interested in hearing ours. He just went ahead and coded merrily without asking. Then wondered why we refused to pay more.
Years later, here he is again, calling our work "disgusting garbage" and his "creative". Now I understand what happened! He was creating. On my dime.
What is with a vendor who cannot imagine the creativity that has gone into some of our sites? How does this kind of intolerance survive at a place like ynot? Ah well.
As for advice about getting a lawyer, I am not so sure. Our scat site has funded a lot of fees and retainers over the years. Never found two opinions that matched, never got any advice I didn't already find on my own. Have one ready, have one on your side, do your research. But not sure there's much return on paying for general legal advice about a scat bust before you know who and where the prosecutor is. Seems to be the nature of the fetish and the law.
_________________
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07:49 PM EST, Tuesday Jan 19, 2010
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Hi Steward, it's good to "see" you. it's been what, eight years?
I was actually thinking about you the other day and
wondering how you are and what you're up to. It's been
years, so honestly I don't remember the details of what we
were doing and what the problem was, but I do remember
you were one of very few webmasters who didn't have a
big smile on his face at the conclusion of our project.
I certainly don't like it when that happens.
From the best I can recall, we had some communication
issues, and there was something unusual about your site -
was it running from a Windows desktop rather than a server
OS? Anyway, there was something that made it a bit
trickier than normal and you and I just didn't seem to be
able to communicate well about it. I'd like to know more
about how you're doing, and see if there isn't a way to
finally put a smile on face. Email or call me if you'd like and
remind me of what the situation was. info-ynot@bettercgi.com or 1-979-530-1300.
| StewardManscat wrote: |
Yes raymor, servers do go to prison. Or at least hang out on death row. A few come back, but severely lobotomized.
|
LOL, I guess that's true - they can be seized as evidence or
whatever. My point, of course, is that mainly it's the PERSON
behind the site who would go to prison, so it's where YOU
are that's more important than where the SERVER is.
| StewardManscat wrote: |
But if your host is scat-friendly, and your server is far, far away, then the gendarmes will need to involve Interpol to get your material.
|
If we're the "material" you're talking about is content on
your web site, couldn't they just use their web browser to
pull it up? No need to go through Interpol to see what
you have on your site ...
[quote]
All else being equal, the guy responsible for your hypothetical nightmare is looking to make a political score with local constituents. The more paperwork you put in his way, the more political bodies and hurdles he has to cross to nail you... the less likely he'll take it on.
/quote]
QFT.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | To me, it wouldn't even be worth feeling like worthless scum because I sell disgusting garbage for a living.
I'd MUCH rather put my efforts into creating something
|
[
This is odd. Here is a vendor selling products at an adult webmaster site, telling us what scum we are. Charming.
|
I should have phrased that differently, I apologize.
I would have phrased it differently if I expected it to be
read by someone actually doing scat, as opposed to
someone CONSIDERING doing scat. That wasn't meant
to say anything about you or anyone else but me.
The key phrase that you quoted of mine is "TO ME .. I'D
RATHER ...". I was talking about how I personally
would feel and what I would rather do. If I'm going to
spend 40 hours a week doing something, I would like to
feel good about what I'm doing. Preferably, I would feel
that I'm adding something of value to the world, making
some positive difference. If I can't find any work that has
any real meaning to it, I personally would want to at least
have an intellectual challenge in my work. If that doesn't
matter to you, fine. If shooting shit gives you and sense of
purpose and meaning in your life, so much the better. It
wouldn't work FOR ME. The OP was considering starting
to do this sort of thing, so I gave him something to think
about while deciding if it's something the HE wants to do.
I've seen more than one successful webmaster walk
away from from a very profitable business because they
decided that the money wasn't worth it to them if it meant
doing "rape fantasy" for a living.
| Quote: |
This vendor had no issues taking money from my scat site.
|
I actually did have some issues with that, and yours is one
of the sites I remember on those days when I ask myself
"Do I feel good about who I am and what I'm doing?
Is what I'm doing from day to day giving any meaning or
purpose to my life?" In the end I did decide to try to take
care of you, that your site was barely on the "ok" side of the
line I have to draw for myself as far the sites I deal with.
You may recall you were initially VERY hesitant to let me
know what your domain name was, and as I recall you
asked us to set up Strongbox on a different, fake site for
you, so you could then move it to your actual site, because
you understood at that time that a lot of people wouldn't
be willing to work on such a site. I think that was part of
the frustration and difficulty which we had trouble
communicating about. You understand that some people
don't feel right about working with such a site. Knowing
that, doesn't it make sense for the OP to take a moment to
think about how he's going to feel about owning and
operating such a site, to see if that's really what he wants
to do?
| Quote: |
Years later, here he is again, calling our work "disgusting garbage" and his "creative". Now I understand what happened! He was creating. On my dime.
...
What is with a vendor who cannot imagine the creativity that has gone into some of our sites?
|
I'm glad you enjoy your work and the creativity involved.
One thing we can both agree on - your stuff is crap. 
(For any stoned people reading, that's a pun, not an insult.)
[/b]
_________________
Strongbox, the next generation site security:
BetterCGI.com
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09:47 PM EST, Tuesday Jan 19, 2010
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Just a quick note - the location of the server makes a big difference in terms of SEO - if you are targeting your content to America and your server is in Europe, you will need to make adjustments via Google webmaster tools to make the site relevant to American searches.
| Hibbs wrote: | Hey there.
I've been creating a variety of blogs over several niches. Most of them are NOT successful in terms of generating traffic and sales.
However, a couple of them are doing well and I want to expand on those niches doing well, and drop the rest.
Trouble is, the one's doing well are in the scat niche. (Yeah it's disgusting, but I just want to make some extra money).
I'm not sure about the legality of the whole thing. The site is on an American server, and I am a Canadian resident.
From what I've been reading, there does not seem to be a clear cut answer on whether or not they are any obscenity issues in either the U.S. or Canada. But to be on the
safe side, I'm thinking of moving the blog in that scat niche to another server in a country where it is acceptable. I'm guessing maybe the Netherlands or Brazil?
Is this something I should be concerned about? Does anyone know any decent hosting companies in those countries? |
_________________
========================
Visit http://www.PornTrafficBlog.com
========================
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10:29 PM EST, Tuesday Jan 19, 2010
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I will give you FACTUAL and direct answers to the parts of your question that I can:
1) U S law is based on precedent-what 1 court finds to be true can be understood as how to interpret the law until another court with higher authority interprets the law in a different manner. When the Supreme court interprets the law-it is considered the "official" national interpretation until the Supreme court changes the interpretation. This is a simplified explanation but is factual enough for this purpose.
2) To date, there have been a number of obscenity cases that have gotten to the Supreme court-most of them started in the 60s and 70s, where the content of material was determined to be obscene. Via precedent scat as a whole is obscene in the United States as is: pissing, fisting, bestiality, sex with foreign objects, rape and other crimes against woman that are explicitly depicted which can include sex with the hands bound or showing bleeding, sex with persons under 18. Until there are new cases at the Supreme court level this is the list of known obscene materials.
3) There ARE advantages to having material on foreign servers. As an example: The Netherlands will not honor a search warrant nor a request from the U S to search or provide information about a server in the Netherlands for obscene material unless they demonstrate child porn is on it. So scat on a Netherlands server protects you better than being on an American server.
Furthermore, there is a good possibility that the Netherlands will not provide or disclose private info including who is owner of an account.
An American DA decides to go after you. He only needs to download 1 picture to get a warrant in the US to obtain evidence of 40,000 counts-1 for each pic of a number of different charges (laws broken) from creating, to owning, to distributing (all are different laws) etc., of obscene material on an American server.
Had that been a Netherlands server, he could only use what he had downloaded AND he may not be able to prove you are the owner or creator of the material or the server it was downloaded from. Why is that significant? Owning 1 joint doesn't carry the same criminal weight as a truckload of pot does.
The DA's case may not be likely enough to win, that it's worth prosecuting. THAT is what matters-NOT being right or legal-what matters is not being prosecuted! Your life will be almost as fucked up being found innocent as being found guilty. But the fewer crimes and counts to defend will be significant in deciding prosecution, guilt and sentencing.
There haven't really been scat or pissing prosecutions in the states in a very long time which is why you see it on the net. The weaker you can make a DA's case the less likely you are to have problems. The costs are in line with US servers but the additional advantages make a Netherlands server and advantage.
Of course-making money with topics that are not a target is a better solution.
_________________
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06:58 PM EST, Sunday Jan 31, 2010
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| davilan wrote: | | ...3) There ARE advantages to having material on foreign servers. As an example: The Netherlands will not honor a search warrant nor a request from the U S to search or provide information about a server in the Netherlands for obscene material unless they demonstrate child porn is on it. So scat on a Netherlands server protects you better than being on an American server. ... |
True but how do you pay for that server -- if its in a check or credit card in your name -- they will just build a case based on that.
Also, whose name is that domain registered under?
_________________
Live Sex Cams XloveCam.com Adult Affiliate Program - AWCM - 30% Lifetime Revenue Share +more ...
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