Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    YNOT Newbies Kristin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    49

    Porn Studios Accused of Screwing Their Fans in BitTorrent Lawsuits

    "A handful of pornography producers are being accused of racketeering, fraud, defamation and other charges in connection to their BitTorrent online litigation trolling strategies.

    The program is simple: They sue IP addresses in court addresses detected to have allegedly and unlawfully downloaded copyrighted pornography without permission. Often, judges in these cases order internet service providers to cough up the identities of the account holders of the ISP and the shakedown begins, according to the Kentucky federal court suit (.pdf), which seeks class-action status."

    Full Article Here

  2. #2
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Thanks for sharing that. Looks like mainstream finally got the memo lol...

    And as if it's their "fans" getting screwed. Note to "fans"... pay for your porn and you'll be considered a fan...
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  3. #3
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin View Post
    "A handful of pornography producers are being accused of racketeering, fraud, defamation and other charges in connection to their BitTorrent online litigation trolling strategies.

    The program is simple: They sue IP addresses in court — addresses detected to have allegedly and unlawfully downloaded copyrighted pornography without permission. Often, judges in these cases order internet service providers to cough up the identities of the account holders of the ISP — and the shakedown begins, according to the Kentucky federal court suit (.pdf), which seeks class-action status."

    Full Article Here
    I wonder if Steve is involved with that one. I know his "adapt or die" strategy was to start suing surfers, but looks like that isn't going as easy as planned with recent rulings and now some push back with this class action lawsuit.

  4. #4
    YNOT Veteran JLproductions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    493
    This is what made file lockers so popular, though people can still get sued it's much more rare. On top of that the process is much more laborious than that of just collecting ip addresses en masse.

    With the slow suffocation of file lockers it'll breath a little life back into revenue. It's been exciting how things are coming along. I've talked to Adult King, he's a guy that get's things done!

    Paul Markham and I are collaborating on something, we'll see how it turns out, LOL. The guy is old but he still has some smarts.

  5. #5
    YNOT Veteran housekeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,246
    File sharing is alive and well, a little bump in the road but with new mirrors being used, free full length porn is available for the taking. Tubes are still using illegal ripped content, DMCA's may take down your stuff for a hot minute, but they are diligently replenishing their back ends with fresh new pilfered content on a daily basis. Biz as usual for the criminals, webmasters may be wise to start hawking boot leg DVD's out of the trunk of their cars.

    Trans-Glam Productions
    photography - design - video production
    ICQ-620070687

  6. #6
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    I wonder if Steve is involved with that one. I know his "adapt or die" strategy was to start suing surfers, but looks like that isn't going as easy as planned with recent rulings and now some push back with this class action lawsuit.
    Well... I'm all for suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz. Say you run a clothing store and business is good. Another clothing store opens up in another part of town and suddenly you notice that your business is almost completely dead. Then you notice you have missing inventory. So you go over to the new store and notice that they are fucking giving away YOUR inventory. And people are walking out of the store and don't plan on coming back to yours. People walking out with stolen product are guilty and would be arrested along with the store owner.
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  7. #7
    YNOT Veteran JLproductions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Well... I'm all for suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz. Say you run a clothing store and business is good. Another clothing store opens up in another part of town and suddenly you notice that your business is almost completely dead. Then you notice you have missing inventory. So you go over to the new store and notice that they are fucking giving away YOUR inventory. And people are walking out of the store and don't plan on coming back to yours. People walking out with stolen product are guilty and would be arrested along with the store owner.
    Years ago at a grocery store I worked for, meat is one of the most stolen products, filet mignon. People would steal meat you'd never think of. One man who had a $300k house got caught, they arrested him and he walked out of the store in tears.
    Maybe it's a klepto thing, but when somebody got caught stealing would real back a lot.

  8. #8
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Yeah I heard that expensive meat gets ripped off a lot. Theft is theft. If you are in receipt of stolen goods you deserve to go down. Regardless even of whether you KNOW it is stolen or not. Ignorance is not a defense.
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  9. #9
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts U.S.A.
    Posts
    3,278
    Blog Entries
    3
    It's a good lawsuit and I hope they win it. What the defendents enguaged in is extortion.

    At some time during legal collections the person accused of not paying actually enters into contract with someone and then doesn't hold up their end of the monitary cantract. That makes for a legal collection process. You can call repeatedly, call them at work. offer settlements. etc.. Legal collections only pertain to money. If someone contracts to barter say two pig for a cow, and fails to deliver two pig and takes the cow, that is not a legal collections case. You have to seek the judicial systems help. IE call the cops and file charges against them. And those charges may be criminal theft.

    But what you can't do is file charges (which is what they did by using discovery) and then hound the person through standard private collections for payments. Especially when you don't have a judgement of any actual proof that the person owes anything. This isn't like an unpaid light bill. The act of discovery isn't proof it's evidence and you can't use private collections law based on evidence of guilt. Attempting to do so is in fact extorting which is illegal.

    I like that this counter suit brings in real issues with collecting and using IP's for presecution. It alone can not and should not stand concreate. As this suit states, there are many ways to be innocent even though the service provider says that IP was assigned to you. Every day I clean up 100's of spam messages on my websites, not a one of them came from where they say they came from. It's just too easy to spoof shit.

    BitTorrent and file sharing technology is not the enemy. You read mainstream press and it's like saying fucker in church. "Everyones hand goes over their mouth and shock and glare sets in". Bittottent is very useful tool for many game update systems, WoW comes to mind. It's the preffered method for downloading just about all Linux ISO's. It's not evil stuff. To assume that all people using BitTorrent are stealing software is just MSNBC Stupid.. Hysteria, mention torrents and watch the sheeple meter climb.

    I use BitTorrent several times a month. I also use IP tracking spoofs and workarounds to tracking systems. I am not a file sharer or a software pirate. There are just times I wish not to be trackable. In todays world, that means guilt. I'm told that the government has a file on me these days. I guess I say fuck Obama too much for some peoples liking. I just say, look farther back in that file and you will find that I created it almost 25 years ago when I was in the need for a license for private investigations and certain information based clearences on a national level. God I miss the Bush's.. :P

    I hope they win this, not to slam the industry, but to settle and hopefully correct a wrong in the way this whole IP discovery bullshit is laid out. I think we need a different system for this. Discovery but only to fill in the blanks on other case filings. Make it unlawful to use the discovered evidence for any other purpose. This is an easy one since most judges hate being used like this. And they know they are being used.
    veni vidi bibi

  10. #10
    YNOT Veteran housekeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,246
    I've gotten notices from several e-mail accounts that they are going to be offering file storage via your mail service. I fully expect this to serve as an alternate means for the criminals to offer their stolen goods, albeit it to a select few or an inner circle.

    Trans-Glam Productions
    photography - design - video production
    ICQ-620070687

  11. #11
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts U.S.A.
    Posts
    3,278
    Blog Entries
    3
    On the stolen products.. Grocery stores, it's a toss up between Meat and HBA. Obviously it depends on the store content and it's location. Department stores lose more HBA, then hardware and electronics in a close third. Reasons for that, HBA is used by everyone and mostly it's the prime source for drug users and the elderly. Hardware because it's easy to steal and many small items to pocket. Electronic would be number one if they where not so well protected in the stores. Most department stores close in and place registers in their electronics.

    Stealing content is a little different in the theft genra. Many times it's purchased and then copied once the product is removed legally from it's owner. Really, the store situation listed above, while still theft, is not like stealing from a store. It's more like, buying up your inventory and then going to their store and giving away cheap knock offs of what they bought from you. Or they could have stolen them from you as well. Still theft, but unless you own the designer rights to the cloths and they are selling or giving away your designer rights.. It's not really illegal. You can make cheap knock offs all day long and until you misrepresent them your not breaking the law. You can't copyright a shirt. Well not the actual shirt anyway, maybe the print can be copyrighted.

    If you buy a book, you have every right as a consumer to lend that book to others. To sell that book, to give that book away. What you can't do is make a second book from the first and lend, sell or give that copy away. Yet if it was a shirt, you could make a copy and sell, lend or give it. you can't call it the same shirt (label it). What we have here is copyrights to easily copied content and in fact must make a copy every time someone views the content. (web content) It's a whole new animal and like the book, shirt example above, not all things apply to it.

    And the law is not helping matters. I can't tell you how many times I have been to a website and been told I may not copy, reproduce, etc.. the content ... only to look up into the top corner of the page to find a "print" button or a "create pdf" link. Really dumb ass?

    I actually had a local battle over this. A local School Committee member had his own mamba news style website. He wrote a piece about public schools and how he viewed and felt about certain aspects of them. It was a nice article and made some valid points. A member of my site who was at the time active in our local public school under activism had copied and posted the article to my website. The next day I got a complaint from the other website demanding I take it down. If the guy was a good guy instead of an arrogant asshole I would have just taken it down. But, the guys a douchbag.. So.

    a) Your an elected public official who's charge is the policy and legislation arm of our public school department, anything you have to say concerning public schools is public record and therefor you can't claim copyright to any speach on the subject even if made as a private citizen provided the content is related to your public servant charge.

    b) Your website give people permission to reproduce the article with "print" "create pdf" and "send via email" a copy of the article so you can't later claim copy rights after you allowed people to copy it via your website design.

    c) Since you both gave permission to copy and made statements that are part of public records by law I am well within my rights as a publisher to publish it in it's entirety.

    Of these, b was the most important. My website co-administrator has a degree in both Law and Abnormal Psychology and is a U-MASS Professor. After this person contacted a lawyer he was basically told the same thing. You can't sue someone for copyright after you gave them permission to copy. I'm not sure how far he went into the legal process against us, but I know he went that far. To cover our asses, my co-administrator, who can not legally provide anyone with legal advice (have to add that) send in a freedom of information request for the document. Loop closed..

    Besides, it was the activist who self published it to begin with. I was never in any danger..

    Why do I bring this up? Because sometimes people who commit acts of copyright infringment don't actually know they are doing so. If this person took this content from the website that gave them permission to copy it and even provided the copy to them.. Did they really commit copyright infringment by giving that copy to someone else? The argument could be, I thought that the owner didn't care if we copied it, after all they encouraged me to copy it on their website. Then comes the second part.. So even if I did in fact download the content from a torrent site. How do I know that the content is placed there without permission of the copyright owner? Or if the content even has a copyright that is legal and active. Heck I don't even know what the content actually is until I download the torrent and view it. Just because the title says iRobot doesn't mean the content actuall is the movie iRobot. If it's not iRobot, then have I violated the copyright to iRobot by NOT VIEWING it? ...

    I mean do you charge everyone who drives a red 2008 Chevy 1500 PU with theft because a red 2008 Chevy 1500 PU was stolen last night? No, you need more evidence before you can take legal action.. Just like in this case. You need more evidence before you can demand damages.
    veni vidi bibi

  12. #12
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Well... I'm all for suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz. Say you run a clothing store and business is good. Another clothing store opens up in another part of town and suddenly you notice that your business is almost completely dead. Then you notice you have missing inventory. So you go over to the new store and notice that they are fucking giving away YOUR inventory. And people are walking out of the store and don't plan on coming back to yours. People walking out with stolen product are guilty and would be arrested along with the store owner.
    I don't see anything wrong with suing people who download stolen content, as long as they are 100% sure they got the right person and ONLY if the amount being sued for is reasonable. For example, If I downloaded a Tawnee Stone full length video from a site and they get my ip and then threaten to sue me for $2,000 or even $500 I think there is a problem there. You can sue "uploaders" for large sums of money because you can reasonably assume that some of the people who watched it could have been customers. But when you sue a downloader the most you should be able to sue them for would be the cost of 1 month's membership max because that is all that is lost from THEM by THEM watching the stolen video vs paying a membership to see it.

    I think people who steal should be held accountable, but just because you steal I don't think the person catching you should be allowed to make up a ridiculous amount of money to sue you. Also, since this deals with adult I think some people feel that they can get away with asking for large sums of money due to the nature of the content, essentially black mailing people to keep it quiet which they would be inclined to pay up whether they were guilty or not.

  13. #13
    YNOT Veteran JLproductions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    I think people who steal should be held accountable, but just because you steal I don't think the person catching you should be allowed to make up a ridiculous amount of money to sue you. Also, since this deals with adult I think some people feel that they can get away with asking for large sums of money due to the nature of the content, essentially black mailing people to keep it quiet which they would be inclined to pay up whether they were guilty or not.
    Like a very conservative married man downloading gay porn. One webmaster who ran a gay site and was a gay man estimated that over half his membership was of married men.

    All the illegitimate ways to make money. It was pointed over on gfy at paypals recent and sharp traffic decline. Any coincidence with the file locker shutdown crusade? Immediately takes place right around when Adult King started his crusade.

    Just look at the image I have attached.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Porn Studios Accused of Screwing Their Fans in BitTorrent Lawsuits-graph-png  

  14. #14
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    If you buy a book, you have every right as a consumer to lend that book to others. To sell that book, to give that book away. What you can't do is make a second book from the first and lend, sell or give that copy away. Yet if it was a shirt, you could make a copy and sell, lend or give it. you can't call it the same shirt (label it). What we have here is copyrights to easily copied content and in fact must make a copy every time someone views the content. (web content) It's a whole new animal and like the book, shirt example above, not all things apply to it.
    Yes If I buy a CD or DVD I can legally loan it to other people. HOWEVER only 1 person can be in possession of it at any give time since it is a tangible item. The problem with online content like videos is people pay to be able to view member's area content, download it then upload it to tube sites. Question 1: Did the site they joined allowed them to download content in the first place and keep a copy for themselves or just watch the content on that site only? If yes, they allowed them to download and keep a copy even after they cancel their membership, then the problem would that they are sharing the content with more than 1 person at a time. When you upload a video to a tube site you know damn well that thousands of people will be watching it, several at once. That is not even close to being the same as "loaning a book to a friend".

  15. #15
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts U.S.A.
    Posts
    3,278
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Yes If I buy a CD or DVD I can legally loan it to other people. HOWEVER only 1 person can be in possession of it at any give time since it is a tangible item. The problem with online content like videos is people pay to be able to view member's area content, download it then upload it to tube sites. Question 1: Did the site they joined allowed them to download content in the first place and keep a copy for themselves or just watch the content on that site only? If yes, they allowed them to download and keep a copy even after they cancel their membership, then the problem would that they are sharing the content with more than 1 person at a time. When you upload a video to a tube site you know damn well that thousands of people will be watching it, several at once. That is not even close to being the same as "loaning a book to a friend".
    Agree, thus the need for laws specific to the product and actions. The uploader, the service and the downloader.
    veni vidi bibi

  16. #16
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Well... I'm all for suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz. Say you run a clothing store and business is good. Another clothing store opens up in another part of town and suddenly you notice that your business is almost completely dead. Then you notice you have missing inventory. So you go over to the new store and notice that they are fucking giving away YOUR inventory. And people are walking out of the store and don't plan on coming back to yours. People walking out with stolen product are guilty and would be arrested along with the store owner.

    Sorry, I don't like analogies, especially ones that are not apples for apples. Let's address exactly what is happening here. (I just read the article.)

    The people being sued: Downloaders, which is a HUGE difference from UPLOADERS.

    Downloaders: people who download a video for themself, to be viewed by themselves only.
    Uploaders: people who steal content and post it publicly, for potentially thousands of people to see for free.

    You said you were all for "suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz". Uploaders, nail their asses to the wall, sue them for thousands of dollars. I am with you, they go out and steal and share with 1000's of people = causes a lot of harm. They know clear well that they are stealing content from a site and then redistributing it when they shouldn't be.
    On the other hand, the only thing that a Downloader does by watching a video without paying for it, is just that, they didn't pay a membership fee.

    So here you have a porn company that is going to sue a DOWNLOADER for $1,000 - $5,000 just for DOWNLOADING an WATCHING one video. To me that is bullshit and blackmail, especially when they “demanded that Ms. Barker pay money to settle the lawsuit or she would be identified publicly as having downloaded pornography ". Its bullshit and porn companies, most of which aren't making sales anymore, trying to find another method to make money... blackmail and extortion. The ONLY and MAX amount of harm that a downloader could cost the porn company would be the lost sale of that one person joining their site because they watched the video for free. The smart and right thing to do would be to contact them, notify them that they were watching stolen content and give them the option to join as a member or make a payment = to 1 month's membership fee. To go after someone for 1K - 5K just because they watched one of your movies it complete bullshit and I hope it blows up in their greedy black mailing faces.

    I hate people who steal and think they should be held accountable, however these people are not "stealing" and "distributing" like the UPLOADERS, they are just watching a fucking movie and being charged 1K-5K for doing so which is beyond over the top obsurd. I also hate greedy people who try to blackmail and extort people as well.

    The other problem I have with downloaders is the fact that unless the site says "STOLEN CONTENT" how do they know it was stolen content they were looking at? If you google a particular model, end up on a site you not familar with and see a link to a video, click it. Surfers are stupid, not all of them even know they are "breaking a law". Sure a good bit probably know they are on a site that is full of stolen content but I can guarantee you that some wouldn't know, so that right there causes some issues. Ignorance isn't a defense but at the same time if you are on a site that isn't clearly identifiable as "ALL CONTENT HERE IS STOLEN" and it is hard to tell that what you are downloading is indeed stolen then I don't think people should be nailed to the wall for it. Anyone of us could potentially download something that we didn't know what stolen who knows where these type of links end up, and I wouldn't be surprised if these porn companies are planting links on sites that look legit, just to get people to download them so they could then "legally" blackmail them.
    Last edited by will76; July 11th, 2012 at 12:46 AM.

  17. #17
    YNOT Veteran JLproductions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    The other problem I have with downloaders is the fact that unless the site says "STOLEN CONTENT" how do they know it was stolen content they were looking at? If you google a particular model, end up on a site you not familar with and see a link to a video, click it. Surfers are stupid, not all of them even know they are "breaking a law". Sure a good bit probably know they are on a site that is full of stolen content but I can guarantee you that some wouldn't know, so that right there causes some issues. Ignorance isn't a defense but at the same time if you are on a site that isn't clearly identifiable as "ALL CONTENT HERE IS STOLEN" and it is hard to tell that what you are downloading is indeed stolen then I don't think people should be nailed to the wall for it. Anyone of us could potentially download something that we didn't know what stolen who knows where these type of links end up, and I wouldn't be surprised if these porn companies are planting links on sites that look legit, just to get people to download them so they could then "legally" blackmail them.
    You've got a point. I vented how people just steal content now and use that.
    Licenses are so cheap and some people sell so many licenses it's hard to tell whether or not content is legitimate. Granted, anything torrented is illegal unless it's linux or GNU something.
    Returns are so low it's not really even worth it for an original content owner to go after someone who may not have a license to their content.
    Paul Markham has been doing his blow out sale of everything for $3k. I bet you if somehow were to open up a store (and just their own traffic, no industry announcements) with all of his content it'd probably go unnoticed because he has sold so many licenses.

    Piracy sites are blatant, torrents or thousands of index file locker urls give this away. A piracy membership site (masquerading as any regular site) is a different animal and with all the saturation, it's really hard to even tell anymore unless you are the exclusive owner and sold no licenses and just happen to catch them. The smart pirates know this as they know not to use content from some big or powerful studios as they will go after you. Some of the smaller producers I know will have their entire sites ripped but beyond DMCA they don't have much recourse and even some so called legit webmasters have used this to their advantage.
    Last edited by JLproductions; July 11th, 2012 at 12:52 AM.

  18. #18
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by JLproductions View Post
    You've got a point. I vented how people just steal content now and use that.
    Licenses are so cheap and some people sell so many licenses it's hard to tell whether or not content is legitimate. Granted, anything torrented is illegal unless it's linux or GNU something.
    Returns are so low it's not really even worth it for an original content owner to go after someone who may not have a license to their content.
    Paul Markham has been doing his blow out sale of everything for $3k. I bet you if somehow were to open up a store (and just their own traffic, no industry announcements) with all of his content it'd probably go unnoticed because he has sold so many licenses.

    Piracy sites are blatant, torrents or thousands of index file locker urls give this away. A piracy membership site (masquerading as any regular site) is a different animal and with all the saturation, it's really hard to even tell anymore unless you are the exclusive owner and sold no licenses and just happen to catch them. The smart pirates know this as they know not to use content from some big or powerful studios as they will go after you. Some of the smaller producers I know will have their entire sites ripped but beyond DMCA they don't have much recourse and even some so called legit webmasters have used this to their advantage.

    A surfer identifying the content as exclusive or having been sold a million times would be impossibly by most surfers, with the exception of the ones that browse porn 24/7. Im talking about identifying the site or the fact that the content is stolen in the first place. Does the website or file name say "STOLEN". Do every surfer that gets online know what a torrent site or warez means ? Some will but not all. It just sucks for someone to be searching for a type of video, find a link doing a google search to a page on a site, click download and really have no idea (because it's not easily apparent) that the site they are on is known for stolen content and the video they are about to click is stolen. They click the video not knowing, boom now they getting sued for $5,000 and if they don't pay up their boss, husband, kid's teacher, church pastor, etc.. will all find out what type of porn they like to look at (or at least was curious enough to view one time!).

    In those cases it should be the site itself that is sued (or wait you can't because of DMCA) or the uploader should be sued. Sue the people for uploading this shit and nail them to the wall, there is no innocent people there. Stop people from uploading and there is nothing to be downloaded. But no, they wont do that, there is 1000x more downloaders than uploaders. The uploaders are smarter and harder to catch, usually in 3rd world countries. The downloaders (who really do no damage here vs the uploader) are like the low hanging fruit that can be easily exploited.

    I can just see my wife who has very little internet knowledge or even worst my parents, surfing porn and coming across one of these "landmine" links and clicking it and then dealing with the blackmail demands. Hell it's possible I could even click on something and honestly not know it was stolen content.
    Last edited by will76; July 11th, 2012 at 01:04 AM.

  19. #19
    YNOT Veteran JLproductions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    A surfer identifying the content as exclusive or having been sold a million times would be impossibly by most surfers, with the exception of the ones that browse porn 24/7. Im talking about identifying the site or the fact that the content is stolen in the first place. Does the website or file name say "STOLEN". Do every surfer that gets online know what a torrent site or warez means ? Some will but not all. It just sucks for someone to be searching for a type of video, find a link doing a google search to a page on a site, click download and really have no idea (because it's not easily apparent) that the site they are on is known for stolen content and the video they are about to click is stolen. They click the video not knowing, boom now they getting sued for $5,000 and if they don't pay up their boss, husband, kid's teacher, church pastor, etc.. will all find out what type of porn they like to look at (or at least was curious enough to view one time!).

    In those cases it should be the site itself that is sued (or wait you can't because of DMCA) or the uploader should be sued. Sue the people for uploading this shit and nail them to the wall, there is no innocent people there. Stop people from uploading and there is nothing to be downloaded. But no, they wont do that, there is 1000x more downloaders than uploaders. The uploaders are smarter and harder to catch, usually in 3rd world countries. The downloaders (who really do no damage here vs the uploader) are like the low hanging fruit that can be easily exploited.

    I can just see my wife who has very little internet knowledge or even worst my parents, surfing porn and coming across one of these "landmine" links and clicking it and then dealing with the blackmail demands. Hell it's possible I could even click on something and honestly not know it was stolen content.
    A lawyer said to me that it is universal among people in the adult industry, "they assume common folk are aware of all the sites out there like they are." It's simply not true. Despite the popularity, sites like warez-bb aren't generally known to most people. Most people don't know with a file locker membership you can go to warez-bb and pretty much get a new computer decked out in a matter of hours with thousands of dollars in proprietary software.

    Yes, I completely agree with you that the uploaders need to be sought out after. Adult King has gotten death threats and along with complaints and pleas. One indian uploader (someone who's written english was blatantly bad) plead that since the file locker he had been working for had had it's account frozen he coundn't get the $1500 (it was 1480 or so) that was owned to him for pay per download and affiliate sales (uploads of site rips or tons of movies in one spot and the downloader absolutely must get the premium before the dmca takes place).

    What makes the uploaders so bad is a piece I did on GFY http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1073133
    Some uploaders have servers that just upload porn or whatever else via FTP to certain file lockers. Just put a cheap dedicated server on auto pilot and upload enough in bulk you'll be set. One foreign guy bragged about having 30 Terabytes of porn in the comments of stopfilelockers.com(of course was a pro file locker advocate).
    Some of the people complained that I was giving hints for the uploaders but to tell the truth the smart ones have been at it. One guy that got banned on wjuntion said he had 5 dedicated servers with dedicated 1 Gbps ports on each. The file lockers he'd been working with had their paypals suspended an as a result in anger and frustration he applied a program to ping the hell out of stopfilelockers.com (Adult King's flagship site in this campaign). It didn't work as AK has a host with fairly good DDOS protection. The guy said to go after GFY (hence all the attacks). Wjunction banned him of course. What a lot of people don't realize is taking part in a DDOS is a felony and will probably get you a few years in a federal prison or at least some serious reprimand. Most get away but a lucky few get a knock at the door.

    Bandwidth is so cheap and fast now pushing huge volume of content aren't hard. Shimmy was saying all his movies are 3-7 GB and thus make it rare to see as a bit torrent or file lockers due to size.
    I hate when you make a campaign against file lockers and then jack asses come in and tell you "well I'm in micro niche and even if it is stolen the people watching it aren't interested." They only get people on longtail SEO terms.

    But whatever. AK has a lot more resources then people are aware of and he'll make headway.

  20. #20
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by JLproductions View Post
    A lawyer said to me that it is universal among people in the adult industry, "they assume common folk are aware of all the sites out there like they are." It's simply not true. Despite the popularity, sites like warez-bb aren't generally known to most people. Most people don't know with a file locker membership you can go to warez-bb and pretty much get a new computer decked out in a matter of hours with thousands of dollars in proprietary software.

    Yes, I completely agree with you that the uploaders need to be sought out after. Adult King has gotten death threats and along with complaints and pleas. One indian uploader (someone who's written english was blatantly bad) plead that since the file locker he had been working for had had it's account frozen he coundn't get the $1500 (it was 1480 or so) that was owned to him for pay per download and affiliate sales (uploads of site rips or tons of movies in one spot and the downloader absolutely must get the premium before the dmca takes place).

    What makes the uploaders so bad is a piece I did on GFY http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1073133
    Some uploaders have servers that just upload porn or whatever else via FTP to certain file lockers. Just put a cheap dedicated server on auto pilot and upload enough in bulk you'll be set. One foreign guy bragged about having 30 Terabytes of porn in the comments of stopfilelockers.com(of course was a pro file locker advocate).
    Some of the people complained that I was giving hints for the uploaders but to tell the truth the smart ones have been at it. One guy that got banned on wjuntion said he had 5 dedicated servers with dedicated 1 Gbps ports on each. The file lockers he'd been working with had their paypals suspended an as a result in anger and frustration he applied a program to ping the hell out of stopfilelockers.com (Adult King's flagship site in this campaign). It didn't work as AK has a host with fairly good DDOS protection. The guy said to go after GFY (hence all the attacks). Wjunction banned him of course. What a lot of people don't realize is taking part in a DDOS is a felony and will probably get you a few years in a federal prison or at least some serious reprimand. Most get away but a lucky few get a knock at the door.

    Bandwidth is so cheap and fast now pushing huge volume of content aren't hard. Shimmy was saying all his movies are 3-7 GB and thus make it rare to see as a bit torrent or file lockers due to size.
    I hate when you make a campaign against file lockers and then jack asses come in and tell you "well I'm in micro niche and even if it is stolen the people watching it aren't interested." They only get people on longtail SEO terms.

    But whatever. AK has a lot more resources then people are aware of and he'll make headway.
    I wasn't even aware what file lockers were till a couple weeks ago. I had no need to use one as I have my own servers to upload stuff to.

    Another thing that makes it different for porn companies to go after downloaders vs what the movie/music industry was doing going after downloaders is that every one knows the movie/music content is something they shouldn't be downloading for free. They know that you have to pay for cds and that the movie that just came out to the theatres (that is now online for download on some random website) has to be pirated and not legal to download. Any reasonable person would know this. However, adult content on the other hand.... SOOO much of it is given away now for free legally. Lots of sponsors will upload tons of long movies to tube sites to use as advertising. It is a LOT harder for a surfer to know that this content over here is illegal where as this content is ok, unless the site makes it obvious from them to know by having some thing on the site or the file name mentioning "Stolen content" "Site rip" "pirated" etc, which not all of them do.

    Again, sueing the downloaders for ridiculous amounts of money (1K-5K) for 1 downloaded video is beyond desperate and predatory, it's not "protecting the industry" its a money grab and blackmail.

    It would be nice for some of the people who are suing the downloaders to come try to defend their 1K-5K lawsuits. I would love to hear their relationalization for doing this.
    Last edited by will76; July 11th, 2012 at 02:31 AM.

  21. #21
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with suing people who download stolen content, as long as they are 100% sure they got the right person and ONLY if the amount being sued for is reasonable. For example, If I downloaded a Tawnee Stone full length video from a site and they get my ip and then threaten to sue me for $2,000 or even $500 I think there is a problem there. You can sue "uploaders" for large sums of money because you can reasonably assume that some of the people who watched it could have been customers. But when you sue a downloader the most you should be able to sue them for would be the cost of 1 month's membership max because that is all that is lost from THEM by THEM watching the stolen video vs paying a membership to see it.

    I think people who steal should be held accountable, but just because you steal I don't think the person catching you should be allowed to make up a ridiculous amount of money to sue you. Also, since this deals with adult I think some people feel that they can get away with asking for large sums of money due to the nature of the content, essentially black mailing people to keep it quiet which they would be inclined to pay up whether they were guilty or not.
    We live in a litigious society. Anyone can be sued for anything at anytime for any amount. Unfortunately that's just the way the mop flops. And with how tough things have been over the last several years in general and with how desperate times call for desperate measures... society has helped create this.
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  22. #22
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Sorry, I don't like analogies, especially ones that are not apples for apples. Let's address exactly what is happening here. (I just read the article.)

    The people being sued: Downloaders, which is a HUGE difference from UPLOADERS.

    Downloaders: people who download a video for themself, to be viewed by themselves only.
    Uploaders: people who steal content and post it publicly, for potentially thousands of people to see for free.

    You said you were all for "suing the shit out of anyone that does anything illegal that hurts this biz". Uploaders, nail their asses to the wall, sue them for thousands of dollars. I am with you, they go out and steal and share with 1000's of people = causes a lot of harm. They know clear well that they are stealing content from a site and then redistributing it when they shouldn't be.
    On the other hand, the only thing that a Downloader does by watching a video without paying for it, is just that, they didn't pay a membership fee.

    So here you have a porn company that is going to sue a DOWNLOADER for $1,000 - $5,000 just for DOWNLOADING an WATCHING one video. To me that is bullshit and blackmail, especially when they “demanded that Ms. Barker pay money to settle the lawsuit or she would be identified publicly as having downloaded pornography ". Its bullshit and porn companies, most of which aren't making sales anymore, trying to find another method to make money... blackmail and extortion. The ONLY and MAX amount of harm that a downloader could cost the porn company would be the lost sale of that one person joining their site because they watched the video for free. The smart and right thing to do would be to contact them, notify them that they were watching stolen content and give them the option to join as a member or make a payment = to 1 month's membership fee. To go after someone for 1K - 5K just because they watched one of your movies it complete bullshit and I hope it blows up in their greedy black mailing faces.

    I hate people who steal and think they should be held accountable, however these people are not "stealing" and "distributing" like the UPLOADERS, they are just watching a fucking movie and being charged 1K-5K for doing so which is beyond over the top obsurd. I also hate greedy people who try to blackmail and extort people as well.

    The other problem I have with downloaders is the fact that unless the site says "STOLEN CONTENT" how do they know it was stolen content they were looking at? If you google a particular model, end up on a site you not familar with and see a link to a video, click it. Surfers are stupid, not all of them even know they are "breaking a law". Sure a good bit probably know they are on a site that is full of stolen content but I can guarantee you that some wouldn't know, so that right there causes some issues. Ignorance isn't a defense but at the same time if you are on a site that isn't clearly identifiable as "ALL CONTENT HERE IS STOLEN" and it is hard to tell that what you are downloading is indeed stolen then I don't think people should be nailed to the wall for it. Anyone of us could potentially download something that we didn't know what stolen who knows where these type of links end up, and I wouldn't be surprised if these porn companies are planting links on sites that look legit, just to get people to download them so they could then "legally" blackmail them.
    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I love analogies, especially in situations like this where I do feel it's appropriate. People can make their own decisions... you can either choose to download something... or not. You can choose to respond to a lawsuit that may be bogus... or not. And you can choose to countersue... or not.
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  23. #23
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I love analogies, especially in situations like this where I do feel it's appropriate. People can make their own decisions... you can either choose to download something... or not. You can choose to respond to a lawsuit that may be bogus... or not. And you can choose to countersue... or not.
    So you agree with the following:
    - Any person who downloads 1 movie that turns out to be copyrighted, it's ok to sue them for 1k- 5k ?
    - If you or someone you know, downloaded a video that they didn't know was stolen, and got hit with one of these "pay us 5K or will tell your family, boss, neighbors what type of porn you watch" lawsuits, you would be fine with that?
    - All surfers know which porn content is stolen and which isn't (easy to identify).
    - There is no element of black main going on here.
    - Downloaders are damaging the industry
    - You agree with everything these companies are doing to sue downloaders.
    Last edited by will76; July 11th, 2012 at 02:16 PM.

  24. #24
    LAJ
    LAJ is online now
    Administrator LAJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Austin, Texas, United States
    Posts
    16,870
    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    So you agree with the following:
    - Any person who downloads 1 movie that turns out to be copyrighted, it's ok to sue them for 1k- 5k ?
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    - If you or someone you know, downloaded a video that they didn't know was stolen, and got hit with one of these "pay us 5K or will tell your family, boss, neighbors what type of porn you watch" lawsuits, you would be fine with that?
    yes... i'd advise them not to pay, call the bluff, and countersue for harassment... see how that works?

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    - All surfers know which porn content is stolen and which isn't (easy to identify).
    I don't care what surfers know or don't know. Any reasonable person would know that someone paid to put together a porn scene. Pandoras box has been so wide open that everyone is losing sight of the fact that a porn video that you don't pay for is most likely stolen

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    - There is no element of black main going on here.
    huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    - Downloaders are damaging the industry
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    - You agree with everything these companies are doing to sue downloaders.
    No... where the hell do I say that? LOL...
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

  25. #25
    YNOT Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    New Orleans Louisiana United States
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post

    I don't care what surfers know or don't know. Any reasonable person would know that someone paid to put together a porn scene. Pandoras box has been so wide open that everyone is losing sight of the fact that a porn video that you don't pay for is most likely stolen.
    What are you talking about??? TONS of porn companies take long videos (some full length) content and put it up on the net for free. Here is a 48 minute porn scene on porn.com http://www.porn.com/videos/aurora-sn...tuds-9153.html
    It's not illegal for a surfer to watch that. There is tons of "legal" content out there, put up by the people who own the content. So again, how is a surfer suppose to know (unless if it was obvious they were on a site that said "stolen content here" etc.) that the video was stolen and uploaded or put there by the company that owns it?

    You can go to any tube site that allows user uploads and you will have a mix of content put there by porn companies and stolen content from uploaders. The surfer has no fucking clue which is which, hell I couldn't even tell you which is which. The only people that know which is stolen and which isn't are the people who own the content, familar with the site it came from, or someone who looks at a TON of porn.

    The obvious answer is they wont know. That is why it is dangerous to start sueing DOWNLOADERS. But it is also an income stream looking for people who want to profit off of blackmail/ lawsuits. Good luck calling their bluff, what if I don't have the thousands of dollars to go to court? What if I have a job that I might get fired from if the owner found out that I look at some kinky porn??? Some people can't take the risk so they just pay it, or they can't afford to fight it.

    They should be going after the UPLOADER, that is 100% clear (as long as they can prove he was the one that actually did it.) there is no mistake when you download content from a member's area then go upload it to a site for other people to see for free. That is cut and dry, but like I said there is less of them and they are typically a little better at hiding themselves. The real money is in sueing the unsuspecting joe blow who very likely doesn't even know the content was stolen in the first place/// fucking pathetic. I hope it blows up in their faces.
    Last edited by will76; July 14th, 2012 at 12:00 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
1 2 3 4 5