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  1. #1
    LAJ
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    pop up chat traffic...

    Does it really work?

    I frequent a few sites that utilize it and while most people have the sense to know it's fake... I just have to laugh at it.

    And for god's sake update the crap you put on it if you use it. I just had a "23 year old woman in my area" telling me that she doesn't care about Whitney Houston.
    Talk to me about advertising on YNOT and get your product in front of the eyes of thousands of Webmasters every day! ICQ 92418228 or email jay at ynot dot com.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Does it really work?

    I frequent a few sites that utilize it and while most people have the sense to know it's fake... I just have to laugh at it.

    And for god's sake update the crap you put on it if you use it. I just had a "23 year old woman in my area" telling me that she doesn't care about Whitney Houston.

    yeah when you update something based on current events it is a lot of work to keep up with and more people forget or don't make the time to keep it updated, then it sounds stupid.

    I have programming in place for stuff like that based on time of day (based on their ip location) and day of the week, so for example mine would say to you right now (11:31 AM - Friday ) So you surfing porn while at work hehe? and/or so what you doing tonight? got any friday night big plans to go out ?

    etc there is a lot of ways to make stuff highly targeted and convert really well AND where you never have to mess with it once it's updated. Using current events is way way way too much work and not needed to convince them that it's really a person talking to them.

    I probably can't fake a lot of adult webmasters, but I can make some of you stop and think twice about it. But I can fake 99% of surfers

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    My thought is, after you have faked them into a click.. what are the chances they are going to spend money? At this point I would be pretty much be annoyed at the site and just leave and never return.

    It's like those page peel ads.. After the initial curiosity, and playing roll it back and let if go a few times (giggles the first time in 2006). It's just gets annoying when you reach for the scrollbar or anything in that general direction.


    Why do something that turns surfers off and not make any money doing it? 2cents..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    My thought is, after you have faked them into a click.. what are the chances they are going to spend money? At this point I would be pretty much be annoyed at the site and just leave and never return.

    It's like those page peel ads.. After the initial curiosity, and playing roll it back and let if go a few times (giggles the first time in 2006). It's just gets annoying when you reach for the scrollbar or anything in that general direction.


    Why do something that turns surfers off and not make any money doing it? 2cents..
    Because you either don't understand how to do it properly or you haven't seen it done right. If the "fake IM" box links through to a girl who is online that they can chat with then what is the harm? All the IM box / fake chat does is get their attention, once they click it as long as you put them right into a live chat room with a hot girl I can tell you from 13 years experience and 180,000+ credit card joins that the surfer isn't turned off much less is he leaving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Because you either don't understand how to do it properly or you haven't seen it done right. If the "fake IM" box links through to a girl who is online that they can chat with then what is the harm? All the IM box / fake chat does is get their attention, once they click it as long as you put them right into a live chat room with a hot girl I can tell you from 13 years experience and 180,000+ credit card joins that the surfer isn't turned off much less is he leaving.
    If you have a girl online waiting to chat why waste your time with a fake IM that most people, as Jay stated, know is a fake.. Why not do your surfers a solid? Your claims don't impress me. I'm might have fallen from a turnip truck, but it wasn't today.
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    YNOT Veteran roberto's Avatar
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    Apparently in all my years of porn surfing both professionally & personally I've never "seen it done right", because it's always obvious & always annoying. And it just reinforces the "adult sites will spam you, fake you out, whatever to get your money", which is not necessarily ideal for the industry as a whole moving forward. Maybe I'm crazy, but IMO nobody likes some fake programmed chat bot trying to trick you into some shit or whatever... in adult we already have an uphill battle for mainstream/consumer confidence, gotta be up-front with the surfers.
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    [QUOTE=mass-dad;483982]My thought is, after you have faked them into a click.. what are the chances they are going to spend money? At this point I would be pretty much be annoyed at the site and just leave and never return.

    QUOTE]


    Maybe you will understand this a little better.... if the ad is done right the people wont know they were faked.



    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    If you have a girl online waiting to chat why waste your time with a fake IM that most people, as Jay stated, know is a fake.. Why not do your surfers a solid? Your claims don't impress me. I'm might have fallen from a turnip truck, but it wasn't today.

    You are making yourself look silly just because you want to argue and go against anything I am saying.

    You caught me, I am lieing just to try to impress you. LOL I am not trying to impress you, I am just letting you that I am not "guessing" here. I know what works first hand and having had generated thousands and thousands of joins is proof that it works and doesn't just "turn off the surfers" as you state, if done right. Have you tried Im boxes or you just guessing it would turn sufers off because you have seen it a few times and it turned you off?

    Your other question, why waste your time with an im box? because it's called an ad that sites sell. Some sites sell stuff like banners, and links, and some some im ads too. The ad gets their attention and gets them to click through to the girl who is live. Also, I am not sure how I can squeeze a live cam and chat down into that tiny little im box. Not to mention if I could the girl couldn't talk to 1000's of people at once anyway. The im box is like bait you through out there, just like banners or any other ads. It gets their attention, if they believe it or not that they are talking to a real girl, if they click it then it takes them right to a real girl who can continue the convo.

    Hopefully you can listen to what I am saying as you could learn something since you obviously don't know how this stuff works, instead of just trying to reply back with something to argue with me about.
    Last edited by will76; June 3rd, 2012 at 10:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    Apparently in all my years of porn surfing both professionally & personally I've never "seen it done right", because it's always obvious & always annoying. And it just reinforces the "adult sites will spam you, fake you out, whatever to get your money", which is not necessarily ideal for the industry as a whole moving forward. Maybe I'm crazy, but IMO nobody likes some fake programmed chat bot trying to trick you into some shit or whatever... in adult we already have an uphill battle for mainstream/consumer confidence, gotta be up-front with the surfers.

    In all honestly there is a lot of people " who think" and then there are people who "do". My sales from using advertisements like fake im boxes say otherwise. Obviously having made tens of thousands of sales from people who have clicked on the im boxes, I doubt those people where annoyed since they went on to purchase.

    Most of these are done on tube sites and you worried about getting the surfers confidence? he is on a tube site full of tons of free porn, with pop up pages, pop unders etc. I doubt a little im box on the bottom of the page is going to shake his confidence in adult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    If you have a girl online waiting to chat why waste your time with a fake IM that most people, as Jay stated, know is a fake.. Why not do your surfers a solid? Your claims don't impress me. I'm might have fallen from a turnip truck, but it wasn't today.

    And Jay's question was " Does it really work? " I replied back with yes it does and have first hand experience, which you seem to disagree with because the ads annoy you lol.

  10. #10
    YNOT Veteran roberto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    In all honestly there is a lot of people " who think" and then there are people who "do". My sales from using advertisements like fake im boxes say otherwise. Obviously having made tens of thousands of sales from people who have clicked on the im boxes, I doubt those people where annoyed since they went on to purchase.
    Hey man, smoke em if you got em, never said they didn't sell. I find them annoying. You keep using them and making bank & I'll block them via my browser whenever possible.

    Far as surfer confidence goes, of course I'm not saying a fake IM window will suddenly make a surfer snap & never pay for porn again. It's more about subtly reinforcing an image. In the same vein, do fake dating profiles featuring leased model images help sales? They must because they're used everywhere, I think it's a lame practice but sadly no one asks my permission before going that route. Would I do business with a mainstream store that tries to get me in the door with fake inventory, especially when it's so obvious? Course not. I'm aware that in adult the sales dynamic is different because many times you're going for a spur of the moment cock-in-hand transaction, but I just can't get behind those bait & switch deals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    Hey man, smoke em if you got em, never said they didn't sell. I find them annoying. You keep using them and making bank & I'll block them via my browser whenever possible.

    Far as surfer confidence goes, of course I'm not saying a fake IM window will suddenly make a surfer snap & never pay for porn again. It's more about subtly reinforcing an image. In the same vein, do fake dating profiles featuring leased model images help sales? They must because they're used everywhere, I think it's a lame practice but sadly no one asks my permission before going that route. Would I do business with a mainstream store that tries to get me in the door with fake inventory, especially when it's so obvious? Course not. I'm aware that in adult the sales dynamic is different because many times you're going for a spur of the moment cock-in-hand transaction, but I just can't get behind those bait & switch deals.

    There is more than enough "bad business" out there to avoid. Before I would worry about a fake im box ad I would make sure not to do business with the sites that bang customers credit cards or are full of stolen content or that do blind cross sales or any type of cross sales at all. Not to mention the companies that are involved in spyware. Then we can avoid doing business with dating sites since all of their profiles are fake and we can avoid any site that uses pop ups/unders. Then we can avoid doing business with any site that uses geo-targeting, im boxes etc...

    Please let me know of any company that doesn't use at least one of the above.

    Im all for boycotting the companies that steal content, bang cards, screw customers, but that right there rules out a large majority of the adult internet. If you going to go to the extreme of trying to avoid sites that use fake im boxes then the only person you will be left doing business with is yourself.

    Going on about how fake im boxes are bad to the customer is about the same as a cop giving someone a ticket for littering in a city that has the highest murder rate in the world.

    The question posed in this thread was if they work. Yes they do, if you choose not to use it or do business with people who use it then that by all means is your right.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post


    Maybe you will understand this a little better.... if the ad is done right the people wont know they were faked.

    Maybe you'll understand that they always know it's a fake. There isn't a noob on the internet who thinks random hot girls that they don't know mysteriously pop up on mysterious chat modules and want to have hot steamy sex chat.


    You are making yourself look silly just because you want to argue and go against anything I am saying.

    Hardly, I SERIOUSLY don't like dishonesty. Anyone who uses tricks and gimmicks to make money are just as bad as Manwin using stolen porn to do the same. You can make money AND run an honest business.

    You caught me, I am lieing just to try to impress you. LOL I am not trying to impress you, I am just letting you that I am not "guessing" here. I know what works first hand and having had generated thousands and thousands of joins is proof that it works and doesn't just "turn off the surfers" as you state, if done right. Have you tried Im boxes or you just guessing it would turn sufers off because you have seen it a few times and it turned you off?

    Anyone who has to qualify their use of misleading tactics by tossing out numbers and making their point with claims of success is obviously reaching for general acceptance. Even if you made a buck, it doesn't make it right to do. I guess I commend you on your perfected skill in trickery..

    Your other question, why waste your time with an im box? because it's called an ad that sites sell. Some sites sell stuff like banners, and links, and some some im ads too. The ad gets their attention and gets them to click through to the girl who is live. Also, I am not sure how I can squeeze a live cam and chat down into that tiny little im box. Not to mention if I could the girl couldn't talk to 1000's of people at once anyway. The im box is like bait you through out there, just like banners or any other ads. It gets their attention, if they believe it or not that they are talking to a real girl, if they click it then it takes them right to a real girl who can continue the convo.

    blah.blah.blah.. But the surfer is already trained to avoid them.

    Hopefully you can listen to what I am saying as you could learn something since you obviously don't know how this stuff works, instead of just trying to reply back with something to argue with me about.

    The arguments belong to you. All I did was give my opinion on what I thought of the use of pop up chat traffic. Your the one who took it personally and are making an issue of it. I frankly don't give a fuck what you do. I don't like them and I think I have made my point as to why. Sorry if your unable to take constructive criticism without getting defensive.
    A: What is "I've made 537,943 credit card sales.. so bow down and fucking listen to me.. "
    Write your own question.
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    YNOT Veteran roberto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Im all for boycotting the companies that steal content, bang cards, screw customers, but that right there rules out a large majority of the adult internet. If you going to go to the extreme of trying to avoid sites that use fake im boxes then the only person you will be left doing business with is yourself.
    This is just not true whatsoever. There are *plenty* of adult companies who don't use any of the misleading tactics you've mentioned. They don't have to because they present a quality product that stands out - trickery is not needed & in fact their customers appreciate the honesty from first contact to sale.

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Going on about how fake im boxes are bad to the customer is about the same as a cop giving someone a ticket for littering in a city that has the highest murder rate in the world.
    Sure, it's all relative. I never once claimed otherwise. Doesn't mean in your hypothetical city it's cool to toss one's happy meal packaging on the sidewalk.

    Look Will, apparently a nerve's been struck here. You've got a lot of interesting things to say on this forum & are definitely a voice of experience, but we're just going to agree to disagree on this one...
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    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    This is just not true whatsoever. There are *plenty* of adult companies who don't use any of the misleading tactics you've mentioned. They don't have to because they present a quality product that stands out - trickery is not needed & in fact their customers appreciate the honesty from first contact to sale.



    Sure, it's all relative. I never once claimed otherwise. Doesn't mean in your hypothetical city it's cool to toss one's happy meal packaging on the sidewalk.

    Look Will, apparently a nerve's been struck here. You've got a lot of interesting things to say on this forum & are definitely a voice of experience, but we're just going to agree to disagree on this one...
    You say a lot of companies that don't miss lead (or annoy) their customers in anyway. Care to start a list. I would love to see it ?

    It's all good but if we going to talk about upsetting customers, lets not stop with just im ads. I just think when subjects like this come up and people go on and on about how something as small and insignificant as a fake im ad on a page is dishonest or miss leading when there are 100x things worst out there, it just comical. Not to mention most people who say this are hypocrites.

    How do you feel about pop ups? Those annoy customers right? would you do business with a site that uses pop ups?

    Or my favorite of all time is when people complain about "customer confidence" but yet they make money from rebilling memberships. Rebilling memberships has to be one of biggest legal "scams" that our industry (and mainstream) pulls on the customers. Let's be honest, we all know that the majority of the people being rebilled each month either don't know about the charge or forgot to cancel. How many times does someone sign up, forget to cancel then notice it a couple months later and get pissed and don't want to ever sign up to an adult site again? We say "you will be rebill for your convenience" but that is an excuse for us to make more money. We rebill thmn because we know most will forgot to cancel. If people who use rebilling memberships really cared about their customers they would send them an email asking them if they wanted to renew their membership or a reminder letting them know it was about to renew. Or they would let them click a link to rejoin each month, or they would auto cancel someone if they haven't logged in for more than 30 days. There is SOOOO many ways we could do this differently if the customer was our main objective, but obviously the customer is not, it's about making us as much money as possible.

    This industry is filled hypocrisy, people just usually tend to pick things to avoid that they wouldn't use anyway. Obviously on a vintage porn site a fake im box wouldn't convert well for you but on high volume sites with free content like tube / tgp sites it actually does well. So you can choose to not like them because you really have no need for them. But how do you feel about rebilling memberships? you use them right ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    A: What is "I've made 537,943 credit card sales.. so bow down and fucking listen to me.. "
    Write your own question.
    You are a waste of time to talk to. You argue porn just like you argue politics, in absolutes. You say 100% of people are annoyed by im boxes, 100% of people don't fall for them. You speak out of your ass because obviously you don't know what hundreds of millions of people think. I simply state that i've made a lot of money from ads like fake im boxes so obviously everyone is not annoyed with them because they wouldn't have went on to make a purchase if they were, and this is the reply I get back from you. When you have something intelligent to say I will continue discussing this with you. Your loss, you have no experience in this type of stuff and are talking like you know everything. If you would have stopped and just listened instead of trying to be argumentative you might have learned something new.

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    Last time, I'm not the one arguing.. you are.. All I did was answer the poster, WHO ASKED A QUESTION AND SOLICITED OPINIONS. It is you who are on the attack and creating the drama. Because my OPINION was in direct conflick with yours.

    Sorry, I'm not interested in learning how to secretly trick web surfers into a cam chat. Just like I'm not interested in Staples sales that are sold out once you hit the store. You claim that it is successful because some people buy your product anyway. I'm saying, I don't, I call a spade a spade and I walk out the door.

    And no, I'm not going to advertise something and not deliver it OR sell them something else after I have their attention.

    You have nothing I want to learn in this reguard.

    It's not honest business. No matter how you twist it around. I say NO popping up fake chats is crap, You say, Yes it works if you can do it right and successfully trick them into not knowing.. This summary is accurate?

    Look up false pretense at your local law library.
    Last edited by mass-dad; June 4th, 2012 at 01:01 PM.
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    Fifteen years ago they opened a new Staples in Greenfield. Everyone started shopping there, myself included. I bought so much stuff there that I got a gold staples card in a matter of months. There was always a line in the place.

    Then they started with the false pretense bullshit. Throw a $1,000 PC on sale for $500 and in small print put (supplies limited) under the ad. They then stocked 1 PC per store and that was generally sold to an employee or one of their friends before the sale date even arrived. Countless customers arrived to "sold out" signs.

    They justify it by saying we make sales of other PC's, some also on sale but not as deeply discounted, others because the person was there shopping for a PC and bought a different one. Besides, we sell more PC's than you so ...

    They avoid false advertising charges (criminal charges, not customer complaints) because they have proof that they "had" one and they did say "limited supply"..

    Does technicalities and customer ignorance make it right?

    I tell ya, I have purchased very little from Staples for several years now. And I was a gold business member, now I drive past them and another 15 miles to get to Walmart for my office supplies.

    They are talking about down sizing the Greenfield Store, reduced sales, seems lots of other people have a problem with their trickery too.
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    Jay I guess my answer is.. If this is what I have to do to make a sale.. I would rather quit and die knowing the mighty dollar never currupted my personal integrity. There is so little we truely possess in this fucked up world that is ours. Some sell it cheap, others mark it as not for sale.
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    Alright, it was not my intention to get into a pissing match about IM popups & who's a bigger hypocrite. Jay brought up the fake IM ads and I gave my opinion, however misguided you might think it is. I do not think dating IM bots threaten the very fabric of the adult industry or are a huge moral transgression, just that they're kind of annoying and lame for the reasons listed. It's all relative as I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    You say a lot of companies that don't miss lead (or annoy) their customers in anyway. Care to start a list. I would love to see it ?
    This is just a handful of companies I've done business with who IMO treat their surfers & customers right. None of that stuff you mentioned - no cross sales, spyware, fake chat bots, fake profiles, CJs, egregious popups, bait & switch whatever - plus attentive & engaged webmasters and support staff who try to give the best customer experience they can, along with quality content. I'm sure if you dig you could find something to quibble with, but AFAIK they're all straight-up. This is by no means an exhaustive list, just a few that came to mind.

    http://affiliates.abbywinters.com/
    http://www.ifeelmyself.com/public/main.php
    http://boobzooka.com/
    http://tour.girlsoutwest.com/
    http://www.spookycash.com/
    https://yankscash.com/
    http://cash.femjoy.com/
    http://www.godsgirls.com/ggcash/
    http://www.hippiegoddess.com/index.php?section=4
    http://webmasters.wearehairy.com/
    http://www.pinupwow.com/tour/welcome/

    Rebills can indeed be a thorny issue and sure as hell can be abused. In a perfect world they function as a "path of least resistance" - for example, I've got a number of subscriptions & services that rebill monthly. I'm fully aware of them. If each & every month I were prompted to take action before the rebill would go through, I might on a given month - say I just spent a bunch going out the previous night - think it over & spur-of-the-moment not hit the 'renew' button. But really they're good services, I use them, so just let them continue on auto until I'm done with them.

    Rebilling subscriptions should be clearly marked as such during signup. On my vintage site, only the trial & monthly memberships rebill - customers can sign up for 3 months (which is pretty close to most sites' 1 month cost), 6, or 12 with zero rebilling. Those that *are* on a monthly cycle get an email with a link to CCBill's cancel page on each bill. And I *always* refund anyone who forgot to cancel the previous month if they email. DoV's been around since 2002, and I can count on one hand the number of customers who've walked away unhappy with that arrangement, with fingers left over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-dad View Post
    Jay I guess my answer is.. If this is what I have to do to make a sale.. I would rather quit and die knowing the mighty dollar never currupted my personal integrity. There is so little we truely possess in this fucked up world that is ours. Some sell it cheap, others mark it as not for sale.
    Hey Mr. Integrity / Not for sale guy, what exactly do you do? Which sites do you own or run? What companies do you promote?? It's funny to hear you get up on the almighty high horse and ride around here all over the discussion of a fake im box. Never mind the fact that I explained when someone clicks on the box they get sent directly to that girl where she is live and they can really chat with her, so it really isn't even *fake* as the real girl is there to talk to them.

    Do you even make any money in this industry? I would love to see what you do so it can be an inspiration to all of us on how we need to conduct our business with the utmost integrity. If "fake im boxes" and geo targeting is "selling it cheap" I'd love to hear what you really think of people who bang cards and steal content or is that all just lumped into one group for you.

    So what do you do, exactly besides talk politics on here and defend content theft LOL. Funny a guy screaming about a fake im box in one thread was just defending tube sites that profit from stolen content in another thread a couple days ago. Now that is fucking hilarious. I would never start a tube site and allow people to upload stolen content to it, DMCA protection or not. I would never want to have a business model that profits off of other people's stolen videos. Yet you defend that but using a fake im box is bad LMAO.
    Last edited by will76; June 4th, 2012 at 04:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    Alright, it was not my intention to get into a pissing match about IM popups & who's a bigger hypocrite. Jay brought up the fake IM ads and I gave my opinion, however misguided you might think it is. I do not think dating IM bots threaten the very fabric of the adult industry or are a huge moral transgression, just that they're kind of annoying and lame for the reasons listed. It's all relative as I said.
    No pissing match here just a discussion about fake im ads and in general what people feel are harmful to the adult industry. After reading your reply it didn't appear to me that you were replying to or giving your opinion to what Jay said, but that you were replying to me and what I said especially since you quoted me. Which is why I replied back to you, and here we are a few exchanges later. As I said I don't mind discussing this with you as you seem like a civil person and put some thought into your posts (unlike others who just ramble on about local stores and make insults). However, what you posted its much the same I have heard over the years from other people, who like to pick one thing they don't use/like and harp on how it's bad for the industry... It's fake im boxes today, in the past it was pop ups, it's always something someone is complaining about that really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, especially when in most cases what they are doing is worst.

    Your original reply to me touches on a couple things:
    - Fake im ads are " always obvious & always annoying".
    - "adult sites will spam you, fake you out, whatever to get your money"
    - " nobody likes some fake programmed chat bot trying to trick you into some shit or whatever."
    - " we already have an uphill battle for mainstream/consumer confidence"

    Just like Massdad, you automatically think that every single surfer out there thinks the same way you do. How do you know that everyone doesn't like the fake im ads? If no one liked them then why do thousands and thousands of people click on them? Why do those same people go on to sign up to those sites if they didn't like it? I don't just assume that no one likes something because I don't like it. I am only commenting about all of this because I have first hand experience, as I use these type of ads. I also don't see how someone is being faked, tricked etc. As I explained, when someone clicks the im box, they get directly TO THAT GIRL'S CHAT ROOM where they get to see and chat with her. How is that a trick? Obviously a real girl can not sit there and chat with the millions of people who see the im pop up. Basically it's no different then when you get an automated phone call and its a recording that talks to you then if you are interested you stay on the line then a real person picks up. I still don't see how that is a trick. Now if you want to discuss "geo-targeting" then that can be whole other conversation.

    As far as customer confidence and doing "whatever to get your money". I personally feel that rebilling the customer is 100x worst then an im ad. Rebilling the customer who forgets to cancel costs them money, costing them money is a much much bigger deal then a little im box poping up on the bottom of the page.



    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post

    This is just a handful of companies I've done business with who IMO treat their surfers & customers right. None of that stuff you mentioned - no cross sales, spyware, fake chat bots, fake profiles, CJs, egregious popups, bait & switch whatever - plus attentive & engaged webmasters and support staff who try to give the best customer experience they can, along with quality content. I'm sure if you dig you could find something to quibble with, but AFAIK they're all straight-up. This is by no means an exhaustive list, just a few that came to mind.

    http://affiliates.abbywinters.com/
    http://www.ifeelmyself.com/public/main.php
    http://boobzooka.com/
    http://tour.girlsoutwest.com/
    http://www.spookycash.com/
    https://yankscash.com/
    http://cash.femjoy.com/
    http://www.godsgirls.com/ggcash/
    http://www.hippiegoddess.com/index.php?section=4
    http://webmasters.wearehairy.com/
    http://www.pinupwow.com/tour/welcome/
    Took a quick look:
    HippieGoddess: only rebilling membership options
    Yanks: pop up on page load, and only rebilling options (unless if you want to pay for 1 year)
    DareRing/SellYourSexTape: I don't know of any of these cookie cutter porn sites that claim the videos were sent from real people to be true, chances are this is another bogus site just lieing to people and its custom shot content.
    GodsGirls: all rebilling membership options (unless if you want to pay for 1 year)
    BareMaiden: charges $19.85 for 30 days recurring and $29.75 for 30 days non recurring. Why do sites charge more for the same 30 day membership if it is non recurring, unless if they were trying to rip off the customer?
    Girlsoutwest: only non recurring option is for 240 days.
    FemJoy: pre-checked cross sale.


    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    Rebills can indeed be a thorny issue and sure as hell can be abused. In a perfect world they function as a "path of least resistance" - for example, I've got a number of subscriptions & services that rebill monthly. I'm fully aware of them. If each & every month I were prompted to take action before the rebill would go through, I might on a given month - say I just spent a bunch going out the previous night - think it over & spur-of-the-moment not hit the 'renew' button. But really they're good services, I use them, so just let them continue on auto until I'm done with them.

    Rebilling subscriptions should be clearly marked as such during signup. On my vintage site, only the trial & monthly memberships rebill - customers can sign up for 3 months (which is pretty close to most sites' 1 month cost), 6, or 12 with zero rebilling. Those that *are* on a monthly cycle get an email with a link to CCBill's cancel page on each bill. And I *always* refund anyone who forgot to cancel the previous month if they email. DoV's been around since 2002, and I can count on one hand the number of customers who've walked away unhappy with that arrangement, with fingers left over.
    It's not that rebills *can* be abused, it is that the simple fact of using them is set up for us to profit off of customers who either miss, don't understand or forget to cancel. Why don't billing companies or site owners go out of their way to make sure the customer is only paying for something that they want. Because we mention one time at signup " this will rebill till you cancel" ? I owned membership sites and I know first hand that LOTS of members rebill for months without logging into the site. Do you think these people want to keep paying for something they want even though they never want back to use it. I've talked to several other membership site owners and they will tell me I have 2,000 current members but only about 10% of them are active (have logged into the site in the last couple months). It's the nature of how rebilling works, it is set up to screw people who make an impulse buy especially when a rebilling membership is their only option to join. So if you want to preach customer confidence and uphill battles, rebilling memberships IMO is 1000x worst than a stupid fake im ad, which is basically just a pop up ad.
    Last edited by will76; June 4th, 2012 at 09:48 PM.

  22. #22
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    If people really cared about the customer they would offer them non recurring membership options for the SAME PRICE. Or at the very least they would send them an email BEFORE the membership rebills letting them know they are about to be charged again. Or they could auto cancel someone if he doesn't log into the site for more than 30 days. There are a TON OF WAYS that sites could be proactive when it comes to trying to build customer confidence when it comes to rebilling memberships but the bottom line is that a lot of money is made off of the people who forget and the last thing we want to do is remind them to cancel or cancel the membership for them. It's not about customer confidence, but trying to make as much money off of them as possible. Let's call a spade a spade.

  23. #23
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    Cool, you don't like rebilling & I don't like popup chat bots. Like I said a few posts ago - we'll agree to disagree, I don't have time to keep responding here. You do make some good points.

    And FWIW just in Sellyoursextape.com & Darering's defense, they aren't cookie-cutter at all. They are indeed authentic couples filming their own sex tapes (this is more evident in the full videos) and 'real' amateurs doing those truth or dare games. They mostly filmed in my region and I personally know some of the participants.
    Delta of Venus Vintage Erotica - Antique Erotic Films, Photos, Stories, Art, & More....
    IntelliSmut.com - Smart Porn Reviews
    Nude-O-Rama.com - Vintage Erotica, Art Nudes, Eros & Culture

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by roberto View Post
    Cool, you don't like rebilling & I don't like popup chat bots. Like I said a few posts ago - we'll agree to disagree, I don't have time to keep responding here. You do make some good points.

    And FWIW just in Sellyoursextape.com & Darering's defense, they aren't cookie-cutter at all. They are indeed authentic couples filming their own sex tapes (this is more evident in the full videos) and 'real' amateurs doing those truth or dare games. They mostly filmed in my region and I personally know some of the participants.
    I never said I don't like rebilling. While its not a large part of my current income, I've owned and advertised lots of membership sites in the past, back when they made good money before stolen content started killing ratios. I will be the first to admit that I think rebilling is here just for the benefit of the site owner to make money and not as a "convenience" to the surfer (which is total bullshit). I was just pointing out that I think customers who forget to cancel because of auto rebilling does more to harm the customer's confidence in adult sites and them making future purchases than a stupid fake im ad does.

    Also you are promoting a site that has a prechecked cross sale on it, surely we can all agree that is 1000x worst to the customer's confidence in adult sites then an im box.

    My point, which I think I've made is that people want to shit on insignificant things that "other" people do and that annoys them personally, and then preach about how bad it is... but yet they are doing things that are much far worst.

    I don't claim to be perfect. I draw my line at not doing business with sites that profit/engage in content theft, bang credit cards or use spyware. If a site uses geo-targeting, im boxes, pop ups, rebilling, and even cross sales I have no problem with those things. However I am not the one in here riding on a high horse saying how fake im ads is hurting the industry either.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by will76 View Post
    Hey Mr. Integrity / Not for sale guy, what exactly do you do? Which sites do you own or run? What companies do you promote?? It's funny to hear you get up on the almighty high horse and ride around here all over the discussion of a fake im box. Never mind the fact that I explained when someone clicks on the box they get sent directly to that girl where she is live and they can really chat with her, so it really isn't even *fake* as the real girl is there to talk to them.

    Do you even make any money in this industry? I would love to see what you do so it can be an inspiration to all of us on how we need to conduct our business with the utmost integrity. If "fake im boxes" and geo targeting is "selling it cheap" I'd love to hear what you really think of people who bang cards and steal content or is that all just lumped into one group for you.

    So what do you do, exactly besides talk politics on here and defend content theft LOL. Funny a guy screaming about a fake im box in one thread was just defending tube sites that profit from stolen content in another thread a couple days ago. Now that is fucking hilarious. I would never start a tube site and allow people to upload stolen content to it, DMCA protection or not. I would never want to have a business model that profits off of other people's stolen videos. Yet you defend that but using a fake im box is bad LMAO.
    I don't support tube sites or stolen content, but I also don't support ignorance from people who should know better. You made some pretty uneducated remarks in the DMCA discussions and showed that you really didn't understand all that much about copyright infringment protections afforded to online service providers. It's just one of your personal flaws of the moment.

    Your also an arrogant fuck who really doesn't like people telling him how wrong he is.. even if that statement is open to interpritation. You simply can not accept the fact that you didn't have complete control and that someone actually showed you something you thought you knew but where wrong about. So rather than re-reading the DMCA and finding out exactly how it is all related to digitol transmittions and why it is written the way it is, you choose to attack the person who bent your nose back and pull the very lame.. show me your money game.. I'll conceed, your dick is bigger than mine.. end of that childish game.

    Sorry, Will.. Your going to have to have your lawyer contact me, or better yet, post your lawyers contact information and I'll have mine contact yours and we will see what we can do about getting you the answer you deserve to your question.

    You remind me of my Heart Doctor. He thinks he knows every fucking thing too. and he doesn't listen to anything anyone is telling him. Then he wonders why people don't talk to him. I tell him look Doc, if your going to ask me a question and then walk away while I'm giving you my answer and act like your not interested or listening to me, then don't cry like a baby when I don't answer your questions and flip you the bird. He doesn't like me much either...

    So if your going to continue to pick fights with me and try to insult me and make like your king fucking shit.. Your only going to get more middle fingers, more of me calling you a dick head and more of your time wasted on someone who doesn't really give a rats ass who the fuck you are or what they fuck you do.

    There are a long list of stupid mother fuckers who tried the same fucking thing before you came along to (or back to) YNOT. It didn't turn out well then and it's not going to turn out well now. So the choice is yours. You can play nice, or you can continue down this road and get absolutely no fucking place fast.
    veni vidi bibi

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